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  • #41895

    w4ts
    Participant


    Replies: 2
    Topics: 2
    Join date: 2014/04/08

    Hello I am new to No bull*** 6max and I am having some spots that I am kidna confused to what I should do.

    PreFlop
    General when there are limpers I am not sure the amount I should raise
    Etc I am at MP and EP limps books says I should raise 3xbb+2bb for the limper that’s clear.
    The positions am confused are most the SB and BB or when there are more than one limper. Here are some examples
    1. I am at the BTN and let’s say MP and CO limps what is the correct raise ? Book says we raise 2xbb from the BTN but with 2 limpers ??? 2xbb+2bb for each limper which makes a total of 6xbb raise ? Also do we raise the limpers with all the range book says (67,4% of hands) ?
    2. We are the SB do we raise multiply limpers with all the range book says (76,4% of hands) ? size ?
    3. Same question about the BB do we also raise multiply limpers with all the range book says (26,4% of hands) ? size?
    Flop as the aggressor
    We ¾ cbet when we have top pair oesd flushdraw or better
    We ½ cbet gutshots or very dry boards
    What about second pair ? we ½ or ¾ ?
    How about donk bets ?
    Also the book says that we should give up when we have overcards or underpairs I am kidna confused with this here is 1-2 examples
    1. We 3xbb from MP with 55 BTN calls flop is A86 are we check folding ?
    2. We 4xbb from EP with AQs BTN calls flop is K67 are we check folding ?
    All I mean these flops looks like good to cbet but books says I should check/fold is this right or I am missing something ?
    Some questions maybe sounds kidna dumb but all I care is make sure I am following the course right 😀
    That’s it for now 😀

    #41918

    MadarameBK
    Participant


    Replies: 3
    Topics: 1
    Join date: 2014/04/08

    This is my move but..

    Limpers > I add 1bb for each limper to my standard size except for BTN, I add 1 more if my original size is 2bb Just to keep the odds right for them to not call easily.
    In Out of Position (OOP), i.e. SB, BB, I raise with an extra bb , so if I was SB, and I have 1 limper I raise with 5bb for OOP premium. However, if you are doing this you need to have your hand a little tighter than what’s written in the e-book.

    1) I raise 5 bb from BTN. (2+2 limpers +1 to keep the odds right) . Yeah you can raise the limpers if you follow the e-book somewhat. Although later you would find out how to exploit the opponent and you can define what kind of limpers are there. (There are usually 3 types of limpers: limp-folder/ limp-caller/ limp-call just to see flop and fold guys)

    2) I’m not sure what Gordon recommends here, but I have a tighter range than what’s written in the e-book for isolating limpers (raising against limpers is called isolation), simply because you are OOP , and also I was used to it. Size = base 3bb (for the same reason as button to keep the odds right) + 1bb/limper + 1 premium (sometimes even bigger because you don’t want to be called OOP but it’s OK.. you don’t need to worry that now)

    3) The Range book , if you read carefully , on the BB section , is referring to Calling the SB raise, not BB raising.. BB treat it similar to SB. although I will raise almost with any cards if it’s just SB limping- but that’s another story.

    Flop the aggressor – I know , I had the same question, and I think the Powerpoint is mispresented. You can read my thread for bit more detail, but I interpret as 1/2 bet size

    4) I know in the video Gordon says ” donk bets re donk bets, always raise” to HansTheGreat, and I’m sure you are referring to that. There’s two approach you can take.
    If you have a hud it’s better, but let’s assume you don’t and generalize. This is what I do (I maybe wrong) : If the donk bet is not so huge (i.e. close to pot size), just raise and bet the turn. I wouldnt’ do the same on turn donk bets. I would play little more passive on turn donk bets, because he has called my bet on the flop and now is donking. (I would check the board and see if there’s any draw completed, as people sometimes do this to provoke you to raise) Now if the bet is so huge (like close to pot size) on the flop, I would treat my self as caller. people usually don’t donk bet huge without any reason. And even he is bluffing, you don’t want to get involved in the pot with big bluffer like that unless you have something. basically you are bluffing each other, and in the case he does have something or he has hit somethig, chances are you lose big. Alternative approach to donk bets is just play passive and treat your self like caller and follow the e-book. This is far more safe since we don’t always enter donk bets. Exception: Min donk bets, treat them like a check

    1)By the book yes. The book is not recommending you to bluff unless super dry board without any reads on he opponent.. If you think he is folding and the board is rainbow, you can bet.
    2) Same reason by the book, yes.

    Later if you can differentiate your opponents who folds more (i.e., regs) and people who call more (i.e. fishes) and their tendendcy to fold, you can bet on those board. but without any reads, no it’s not a good idea but soon you will bet them. don’t worry. soon you will even know which boards fishes fold too 🙂

    The reason you can bet on the super dry board as Gordon explains is because the chances that your opponent hit something on the board (even fish) is very low. They really don’t have reasons to follow the board unless 1) They are so good post-flop and they can outplay you or 2) They are super calling stations (FISH that doens’t fold at all, or 3) They are on FD. so in this case you can try to bluff bet. The usual so called “dry board” as above you can have possible straights, and 3 different pairs, so the chances of them hitting something is higher. So they will likely follow (yes good regs won’t follow unless they have equity, but now fish does)

    You can follow the book , but if know you can get them to fold, and go for it But always have a plan if you get called. If not, just follow the book.

    #41926

    w4ts
    Participant


    Replies: 2
    Topics: 2
    Join date: 2014/04/08

    thank you MadarameBK for you time to answer my questions!

    I was assuming almost the same cause it makes the more sense!
    But as i said i wanna follow the course and i wanna be sure that i am following it correctly.
    I also read your post and i do agree the ebook needs some updates cause some spots are not that clear. (like donk bets – 3bet pots post flop sizing – preflop play vs limpers – and isolation ranges from the blinds etc)

    Hope Gordon will answer as well 😀

    #41927

    w4ts
    Participant


    Replies: 2
    Topics: 2
    Join date: 2014/04/08

    about donkbets i was thinking if its good the following

    raise the donkbet if you should 3/4 cbet the flop (TP-FD-OESD-OR BETTER)
    pretend the caller if you should 1/2 cbet the flop (2nd pair-gutshots)
    fold rest

    Or…
    Just raise all the donk bets when are small and only raise the big donkbets when you should 3/4 or 1/2 cbet the pot and fold the rest

    One other question i am having is if we are always checking to the aggressor or we should donkbet some hands ….
    this is not at the ebook but i have seen hans at the videos donkbetting some times

    thank you

    #41947

    Mhonielsen Holm
    Participant
    CFP Student

    Replies: 124
    Topics: 64
    Join date: 2013/10/21

    Hey W4ts.

    Here are my two cents on the problems – I am not sure what the book says, but here is how I would play those situations:

    1. We 3xbb from MP with 55 BTN calls flop is A86 are we check folding ?
    2. We 4xbb from EP with AQs BTN calls flop is K67 are we check folding ?
    The hands are basically similar, as you kind of have something, but not much. The aim for these hands would be to get to showdown as cheap as possible. Hopefully checkin it down all the way. You could be lucky to catch a 5 in the first, or an A in the second on one of the later streets. IF!!! that happens, I would start raising. Otherwise I would fold to just about any bet.

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